28 responses to “hodo, oh HELL NO.”

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  John Dicus September 19th, 2011 at 19:30

  Are you OK with the snap type mousetraps that kill them quicker? Or is it the killing alone that gets you? Because rodents cause huge losses, and can get a company shut down very quickly if they are seen to be abundant.

  there are also live traps that catch them unhamred…. but I figure you have to take them a long ways away or they’ll come back. Also, you are then introducing them into another food system that might not be able to support their additional mouths…. this would stress the existing populations.

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  Gina September 19th, 2011 at 19:31

  Unacceptable. Let’s see. This took exactly 2 seconds:
  http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=humane+mouse+traps&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

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  Disgusted September 19th, 2011 at 19:33

  I won’t support a company that takes part in this:
  http://www.peta.org/issues/wildlife/glue-traps-pans-of-pain.aspx

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  John Dicus September 19th, 2011 at 19:55

  Thanks for the links Gina and Disgusted. I’ll be making the toppling bottle live mouse catcher and the wheel one for many mice.

  Now, have you got anything for gophers? They eat our cactus roots and cause about 20% loss of our edible cactus yearly. We are organically certified, and trapping and other killing methods are approved, as well as sonic deterrents (which didn’t work for us), gopher purge, etc…..

  We have a number of barn cats, we have many raptors…. but also the last two winters being wet have given us more rodents than we’ve ever seen… and the gophers love tunneling through the soft moist soil, following the rows of plants, one after another, a new one each day.

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  Gauri Radhika September 19th, 2011 at 19:57

  Gosh I hate all animal traps, I wish they just did not exist 🙁

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  John September 19th, 2011 at 20:02

  I understand your reaction to this company. However, it strikes me that it does not comport with your approval–indeed enthusiastic endorsement–of numerous eating establishments that, though they may have vegan offerings, nonetheless do business with and provide revenue for the meat industry (e.g., “Tony’s Darts Away,” etc., etc.). Sure, it is great that places that sell meat offer things catering to vegans, but in reality, it doesn’t help the animals they DO serve any (though it may help vegans). Additionally, one does commonly find “vegan friendly” offerings in places located where there is a decent sized non meat eating or vegan population, which strikes me more as “good business” than true compassion for animals.

  In short, while I appreciate the value of simply exposing vegans to places where they have choices for good tasting, quality food, I think consistency dictates that ANY place that serves meat (and you may include dairy if you wish) should not be lauded; praise and enticements for patronage should be reserved for vegan-only establishments.

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  Jenniferxgfx September 19th, 2011 at 20:11

  You know, these traps are deplorable, but how do you know this isn’t happening at all tofu companies? Also, AFAIK, all tofu co’s sell their soybean waste to farms to feed pigs that’ll be slaughtered and sold for their flesh.

  I seriously doubt there’s many truly ethical tofu companies out there.

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  Steve September 19th, 2011 at 20:14

  I’m not so upset about the fact they were using mouse traps in the first place, but their response is disgusting.

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  Gauri Radhika September 19th, 2011 at 20:23

  ^ Yea, this debate goes on quite often here and of course it’s important to consider…but how else to encourage mainstream restaurants to have at least a few vegan options? Unless those options are publicized and supported on vegan blogs like this, they won’t persist. I think that’s how a lot of people look at it.

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  John Dicus September 19th, 2011 at 20:28

  The glue traps are truly horrible. I’ve seen them used (not by us)….. and it’s sad because you can see the animals died slowly…. suffering extremely.

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  dean September 19th, 2011 at 21:38

  So sad that with many other rodent alternatives, a vegan company has to use such cruel devices.

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  John September 19th, 2011 at 21:59

  I love what this site does; it’s provides a great service to vegans. Consistency in vision is difficult to achieve, and usually only successful in degrees. That said, there is no escaping the fact that free promotion to restaurants that serve meat is indirectly beneficial to the meat industry. I’m not “calling anyone out” but merely asserting what I take to be a fact.

  However, because of this, I think enthusiastic reports about places like Mowhawk Bend and even mentions of the Cheesecake Factor (dairy is in the very name for God’s sake) deliver an inconsistent and mixed message on a site that also moralizes about the actions of a soy company, etc. If there was no moralization at all, but rather, mere information and guidance about/to great places for vegans to grab some tasty food, there would be no conflict of vision. Perhaps this would be ideal, as there are plenty of good online sources that are directly concerned with animal rights issues.

  It think all this shows that it is exceedingly difficult to be a complete and informative “food guide” to places that serve vegan food, yet at the same time retain a consistent stance against the sale and consumption of meat and dairy.

  Just something to think about, and I apologize if this has been stated/debated previously.

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  Steve September 19th, 2011 at 22:04

  What I love about this site is that it’s a pretty open dialogue without being preachy about most issues that other vegan sites are preachy about.

  I eat at omnivore restaurants, yet I’m still appalled that a company would continue to defend such cruel methods when brought to their attention.

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  Lex September 19th, 2011 at 22:21

  I’d vote for the rodents to be used in dog & cat food over chicken/beef, etc.

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  Herwin September 20th, 2011 at 04:05

  disgusting. boycot the mf’s. usually any domestic animal “pest” can be PREVENTED by keeping the place clean (no food for unwanmted animals) AND closing holes so mice can’t come in anymore. Lots of work but it works…permanently, satisfactory…and…its cruelty free.

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  Roxee September 20th, 2011 at 05:41

  We have to provide a solution or alternative to the problems we see happening.
  Alternative to the glue traps are other forms of entrapment, such as trap and let loose ones or like HERWIN suggested close up the holes so they can’t come in. If it’s too hot in the kitchen, close the back door and open screened windows instead, or place electric fans everywhere.
  And the establishments should just DO it, because restaurants are catering to people and the people are paying their salary,(in case they forgot that piece of vital information), so to keep people from going elsewhere, keep the PEOPLE coming back by acknowledging and actively fixing the problem!

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  John Dicus September 20th, 2011 at 06:40

  I wish we had ‘LIKE’ buttons for comments…. because Roxee has the right idea. As a non-vegan who markets often to vegans, I am in a different world, and need to be ‘guided’ to a different way of thinking… but if hollered at and called names, one is more likely to be put-off and turn away dismissing the input. These folks are more likely to never allow people in now, and we’ll never know anything about them…. instead, if a group got together and offered to advise the shop, and volunteer to help perform the sealing etc they might get more co-operation from the business. All the biz knows right now is that they WILL get shut down 100% if the health department finds rodent droppings. They now know they can also be ‘called out’ if vegans find traps…. what is likely to be their solution? They will likely stop tours to vegan groups, but not really modify their behavior.
  As far as excluding rodents… they can pass through a tiny little crevace. If exclusion can be performed it is indeed preferrable from the biz standpoint… first they’d NEVER have to worry about rodents…. THAT’S the approach that should be used. But it’d be a tough thing to totally rodent-proof that old building. Perhaps if a team of volunteers came by, volunteering to seal the place for free, they might have more ears…..

  Vegans… guide people softly…. you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar(but I know you don’t want to catch flies on a glue strip)…..

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  John Dicus September 20th, 2011 at 06:55

  But again, I thank you all for I have stumbled upon a rodent trap (the bottle one) that will help me. I hope you all can go to this shop and gently bend them to this idea. The bottles are free also (cast-away)…. so what’s NOT to like? I’ll design mine to hang from the ceiling when activated, until then they can rest on the counters, and when I see them hanging from the rafters I’ll know they have a mouse!

  Nic eand easy and gentle folks….. if not eating meat products is supposed to make people less agressive, you’d not know it by the comments you see on some vegan forums. If that’s how some folks are when they are vegan, I’m glad no one is giving them beef!

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  kay September 20th, 2011 at 12:55

  How do you know they are a vegan company? Their site doesn’t mention it.

  A company that makes soy products (or any vegan product) isn’t necessarily vegan.

  I’d like to see them use less harmful ways to protect against pests but the moral outrage is a little over the top.

  Reminds me what happened on this site when Gardein put a non vegan recipe on the back of one of their products. Some people freaked out a little too much.

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  ¡Yo Soy Liz! September 20th, 2011 at 13:41

  Those traps are horrible, but am the only one that is also grossed out that a food company has rodents in their facilities in the first place?? Maybe this is a common thing that I just don’t know about?

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  ktmo September 20th, 2011 at 17:40

  thanks for talking some sense at the outraged vegans john dicus.
  funny how the mention of volunteering time and effort to make a difference kind of made them all go away…

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  Roxee September 20th, 2011 at 18:01

  Thank you John Dicus, I am a former meat eater and I just began being vegan since September 2011. I would never berate a meat eater or a vegetarian who chooses to consume dairy and/or eggs.
  I used to live on a farm when I was a teenager and used to shoot the ground hogs with a rifle. I used to go hunting with my uncles. So… I know how it is to NOT be vegan….
  Let’s EDUCATE, not push them away.
  Thank you all for reading.

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  Oh please September 20th, 2011 at 18:12

  The people who are here complaining about vegans and defending a company that kills mice and then defends it obviously aren’t regular readers of this blog. Sure it reviews vegan food, but it’s also known for its over the top opinion articles. That’s one of the many reasons we love QG.

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  John September 21st, 2011 at 16:59

  Dear “Oh please,”
  Your post makes little sense due to sloppy writing and the inherent ambiguity of the word “it.”

  If you are in any way referring to anything I asserted above, my point is very simple. It is this:

  QG critiques a vegan business (perhaps rightly) yet promotes businesses that serve meat (thus, indirectly aiding the meat industry). There is an inherent tension in this. This could be resolved by either (i) ceasing to critique businesses on purely moral grounds, or (ii) ceasing to promote business that serve meat. Since–as I see it–the main value of QG is to simply give vegans more dining options (and there are other great sites that provide moral critiques on this topic), I see (i)as the best option.

  I assume however, that QG will either live with the tension I mention or simply ignore it.

  John

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  Herwin September 24th, 2011 at 03:10

  Thats a nice paradox.

  ordinary restaurants that start to offer vegan meals, is a step in the right direction of reducing meat and animal cruelty.
  Thumps up!

  On the other hand, a tofu company that uses glue traps there is nothing positive about that. There are alternatives to these cruel glue traps. But these people just dont care, and so QG rightfully blasts them.
  Thumps down!

  Oh, and, urm, why the silly remarks about somebodies choiche of words? Just stick to the topic.

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  John September 24th, 2011 at 11:17

  My comments about someone’s writing were not silly. Sloppy writing on blog threads is like schoolkid graffiti: Makes no sense and it’s ugly.

  Do you really think the Cheesecake Factory, Mendocino Farms, or even Mohawk Bend offers vegan/veg food out of compassion for animals, and/or are moving in some “direction” of becoming non-meat establishments? Any free promotion; every dollar you give them enables them to thrive and sell more meat. “They,” as corporate entities of varying sizes, do not give one flying fuck about animal welfare.

  Many ethical vegans strike me as pretty self-serving. Somehow, all is well if you can go out to a variety of places, eat your vegan comfort food, and keep your hands clean.

  Certainly, if it is “easier” to be vegan and still go out to eat at a lot of places, then the numbers will increase slightly. But may only be a boon for the veg friendly and/or veg/meat hybrid restaurants bank accounts, not for animals.

  John

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  John September 24th, 2011 at 11:42

  There are worse things than eating meat. One is making a living from selling meat. Think about it.

  Offering “vegan options” doesn’t negate this fact at all.

  Would you consider spending ANY of your money at a fur coat store? Say, this one . . .

  http://www.furclearinghouse.com/servlet/StoreFront

  Oh, you don’t wear fur. I see, but good news, they offer some cruelty free faux fur options!

  http://www.furclearinghouse.com/servlet/Categories

  So go ahead, spend away. I’m SURE that money won’t help them sell more real fur coats.

  John

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  vegano September 24th, 2011 at 12:31

  For John Dicus: This past summer I was living on a large property where the owner had about 30 or more tomato plants. Almost every morning I found one or two that was eaten from the roots up by gophers. The owner actually had placed wired material below and around the garden to prevent them from getting at the roots. I found that there were some small holes between the wires and closed them. After I did that there were no more plants getting eaten. You can also put the wire material around and below each of the plants itself to protect them from gophers. They don’t chew through the wire.